I had something happen today that really made me stop and think about whether we, as notaries, are being fairly compensated by signing services for the professional services we provide to their clients.
Earlier today, I received a call from a woman who needed a Power of Attorney notarized at the hospital. When I explained my fee, she told me she thought it was very reasonable. She then proceeded to tell me that the signing service she had contacted had quoted her $1,700. When she questioned the quote, they lowered it to $750.
I had another experience with a different client who needed a Power of Attorney notarized and had hired a signing service. She disclosed to me that she had repeatedly asked the signing service for a receipt because she had paid them $250 for the notarization, yet she never received one. I did not ask her what she had paid—she volunteered that information on her own.
Knowing what the client paid and knowing what I was compensated for by the signing service really made me stop and think. It highlighted the growing gap between what some signing services charge consumers and what they compensate notaries for the professional services we provide.
This isn’t about criticizing signing services or suggesting they shouldn’t earn a profit. They provide an important service by marketing their business, developing relationships with title companies and lenders, coordinating appointments, and handling the administrative side of the transaction. They absolutely deserve to be compensated fairly for the work they perform, just as we as notaries rightfully deserve to be compensated fairly for the professional services we provide.
What I am questioning is whether the growing gap between what some consumers are being charged and what notaries are being compensated by signing services for the professional services we provide has become too large. At what point does that gap become unfair to both the consumer paying for the service and the notary performing the work?
I’d genuinely be interested in hearing perspectives from both notaries and signing service representatives.
I charge a service what I believe to be a fair and equitable fee for my services.
What they charge for their services I don’t worry about. Because I don’t track what they are paying for to run their business. It’s not always we’re getting underpaid compared to them. I also don’t really look at what the fees are on the closing disclosure because closing fees are not necessary notary fees. I don’t focus on this aspect of the business. That’s just me.
Sherry is talking about the fees signing services are charging clients for notarization of a Power of Attorney - not real estate closings. And in all honesty, I think it’s pathetic that a company can tell a client $1,700 or $750..or even $250…for GNW. Especially only one document which, yes, can take some time to get through but still…there should be penalties against these companies that can pull this on unsuspecting consumers…I believe price gouging and usury come to mind.
There should be some regulatory agency to report these actions to…it’s just not fair to people
I just think folks spend time worrying about issues that aren’t their issues. Setting what other companies charge for services isn’t my concern. Consumers have responsibilities for how they spend their money. I simply don’t agree it’s a notary’s job to do that for them. People would have less stress if they stopped trying to control what they can’t control. That’s just how I feel about it.
LindaH-FL thank you for your valuable insight. In Florida, consumers who suspect predatory or excessive billing practices can report potential price gouging to the Office of the Attorney General or the Secretary of State’s Notary Section. That said, it is important to recognize that the marketplace often dictates costs based on the consumer’s perceived value of the professional they have selected. Furthermore, attorney-led notarization services operate under fundamentally different billing structures designed to account for specialized legal expertise, extensive education, ongoing licensing, and the significant overhead of maintaining a law practice. While being a Notary Public or Loan Signing Agent does not require a law degree, those who have invested significant time and resources into their professional education and experience are certainly entitled to price their services accordingly. Florida regulates what we can charge per notarial act, but the state also allows us the leeway to price other levels of service within reason. Ultimately, the marketplace and competition drive pricing, as consumers always have the ability to shop around for the best value/price.
<<<At what point does that gap become unfair to both the consumer paying for the service and the notary performing the work?>>>
The gap exists largely because some notaries allow it. A notary should charge what covers their expenses and yields a profit — no signing service assignment is worth taking if it doesn’t meet that floor. When notaries undercut themselves to stay busy, they hand signing services their pricing power on both ends.
The consumer bears responsibility too. Paying a premium without vetting where the money goes or whether a direct hire is an option is a due diligence gap. Buyer beware — and notary beware equally. Know your numbers, set your fee, and hold it. Notaries who price correctly - performing as a business, not an employee - and build direct relationships will outlast the race to the bottom.
We did not get into detail about the conversation she had with this agency as her father is actively dying. But she did give me the phone number she called, and I do plan on calling them to see how they justify the price to notarize one piece of paper at $1,700.
It is interesting that notaries are capped on general notary work (e.g., notarizing POAs) while (it appears that) Signing Services have (or give themselves) much more leeway. My Secretary of State allows $5.00 per Notarial Act plus mileage and any reasonable fees (which I have turned into my hourly rate.)
There’s no way that I can justify charging over $100 for notarizing one simple POA from a local client, let alone $750, and certainly not $1700.00. That’s even excessive for most lawyers. I recently went to an estate planning seminar hosted by a lawyer and he told us that he charges $300 if the client has all their ducks in a row.
Now, granted, we don’t know the scope and reasoning for the $1700 or $750. Maybe there are attorneys at the signing service, the client’s POA is more involved, business overhead fees, etc… However, notaries are operating a business as well and have fees and costs too. But, they still pay as little as possible. Just today, I received a text from a signing service that needed a notary in less than an hour to do a Seller Signing for $70.00. Clearly, there was no consideration to add an expedited fee for the notary. Obviously, I rejected it but another notary took it.
We, as notaries, must know our worth. I often ask for slight fee increases after taking assignments and each time they’ve been approved. So, I do believe they are getting paid well and, in turn, often pay notaries the bare minimum. It does bother me when I think about it. But, my aim is to eventually stop using these services and continue building solid relationships with realtors, title companies, businesses, and everyday clients.
For Notary Cafe members who haven’t yet created their own individualized Schedule of Fees for professional services, please take a few moments to Review this Notary Cafethread on that topic.
Lawyers charge $300 or $400 in states such as Georgia where an attorney is required for a loan closing. They charge this amount just to get on a call for 2 minutes and tell us to call them if there are any legal questions during the signing. Meanwhile, the notary is doing all of the actual work (including driving time and expenses) for maybe $100. You can say that the lawyer deserves more money because they’re a lawyer and paid for their education, etc, but if we’re considering this one transaction, which they may not even have to do “anything”, and the notary is doing all of the work, why should the lawyer be paid 4 times as much as the notary? Just asking!
We sure can’t do what they can. It’s simple really - you do a job for a fee you find fair and equitable. That’s it. Wondering what everyone else is getting doesn’t make sense to me.
The key phrase here is…“fair and equitable”. That’s very subjective. If you’re satisfied with what you were getting paid, that’s all that matters. If you’re not, then I think it’s fair to question the difference between your pay and the attorney’s pay.
@steves11 One thing I can point out is - keep in mind, when a notary is called to notarize a POA, that’s all they’re responsible for - the mechanics and requirements for notarizing only. When an attorney drafts the POA and handles the signing of it, they are responsible for the contents of that document and the liability that goes along with it.
I don’t have a problem with an attorney charging more for their work..I DO have a problem with a stinking signing service charging someone $1,750 for it. That’s just criminal
When the attorney “officiates” a loan signing, there isn’t necessarily a POA involved at all. Even if there is, that attorney may not be the one who drafted it. The part I’m questioning is where the attorney gets paid $400 just for being available to respond to a phone call (if necessary). I know you can make the argument that he would otherwise be free to do other revenue-generating things, but the truth is, he probably would be doing it anyway. I somehow doubt that the attorney is just sitting at his or her desk, twiddling their thumbs, hoping that the phone doesn’t ring with a question.
I agree with you @steves11 about $400 for a phone call…not sure what attorneys charge where you are but down here in cheapo FL the going rate is $250/hour and up… keeping in mind that, in your scenario, that attorney is probably signing off on the title insurance policy, putting him/her in a position of having immense liability.
I was addressing the POA situation…not loan signings.
I’ve read the replies; let’s remember that signing services are not regulated. They can charge whatever they want. They went into business to make a profit. What is a reasonable profit? They do not give a damn if you make one; the cheaper they can get a notary, the more they make. Then they hold our fee for up to 90 days or maybe forever for some. We do not even know if the individuals who work there have BGC, yet they want copies of ID and see all the private information of the client. They want copies of our BGC but will not provide that information for them or their employees for our records; we have no rights. I have two who send our requests for $40-45 for a closing. I respond with a few dollars more than my normal fee, because I know they will respond with another higher fee. It’s a game with them; I can respond with a little lower fee if I want. Most times, they come back again with the fee I ask from them. If they can get a newbie or sucker who does not know the cost of doing business, more power to them. Newbies don’t have a business concept of the cost of our services. If you have been in this service for as long as I have, 23 years, the price of paper has more than doubled, prices for toner and drums have doubled and tripled, let alone fuel, vehicle expenses, supplies, insurance, etc., yet fees have dropped for notaries by 50% or more. Finance companies and Title companies work on a % of the dollars of the transaction, so their income has gone up, compensating them for the increase in costs. We are looked at, I feel, as just doing this as a side hustle or a public service for others to make a profit. Once you subtract the cost of your business, the time we spend driving, signing, printing, now scan backs, we work for less than minimum wage in most cases. The industry needs updating. If you look at your crystal ball, it is evolving to RON signings and the Title Company will perform the service and eliminate notaries where they can.
The amount the law firm charged might be for an entire Trust binder, that sounds more on the level. $1,700 for a single POA is price gouging. Those documents have a template and just need minor modification. I’ve helped signers with POAs they took off the Internet. It is not our place to vet the soundness of the document, only to make sure we identify the signer, verify their capacity and execute the document correctly. Let the Buyer Beware and those firms should have a correction in the future.
percent Accurate! 