VENTING: When calls from the signing table go unanswered šŸ˜”

UPDATE 05/06/2020: I am happy to say this vendor manager agreed to pay the full signing fee including a reprint fee. A manual adjustment had been made behind the scenes and even though the payment message was not triggered and sent to me directly, the company had already intended on paying in full. NICE. I am thankful for professionals who take business metrics seriously and also recognize the efforts of the signing agent. THANK YOU! Hang in there everyone. ~Carmen


Original post

When we receive an assignment from a hiring company, the signing agent receives very specific notary instructions ā€œCALL THIS NUMBER IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS AT THE SIGNING TABLEā€, etc. And when the borrowers have questions that the signing agent cannot answer, we call the number, as instructed. Right? Right.

Except there are times when no one answers our calls or responds to our voice messages. It is so frustrating and even embarrassing to have to make up excuses to the borrower why our phone calls from the signing table go unanswered. But I do it. I find myself saying things like, ā€œI am so sorryā€¦ this is highly unusualā€¦this rarely happens. Yes, they are a good company, but they must be so very busy assisting with other loan signing questionsā€ etc., etc. I even dig deeper into the loan docs and will reach out directly to the loan officer or title company. Itā€™s not like I try calling one time then give up. Sometimes I understand there is a time zone issue. East coast businesses have long since closed when I am doing an after hours signing here in Washington. I believe they should still have someone available to answer questions after hours.

This happened to me. Again. First, let me tell you I attempted to spare the lender embarrassment by calling attention to a mistake before I arrived to the signing and allowing them time to fix it before it reached the borrowers. I received the assignment and when I called to confirm the appointment, one of the the borrowers indicated to me they are FATHER AND DAUGHTER. Her dad is co-borrower on her home loan. Sheā€™s young and just starting out, so yeah, makes perfect sense. But when I finally received the loan package, the docs indicated they were husband/wife, so I immediately alerted the signing company and lender. I was told the entire loan package would need to be reissued/reprinted. And the loan package was resent the following day. I reprinted them after I got home from another remote assignment and departed immediately for the next signing. Many documents the borrowers were being asked to sign still indicated they were spouses, not father/daughter. Another document indicated he was an ā€œunmarriedā€ man and required his signature. It was troubling to them both. Especially the father. He had introduced his wife when I arrived. He laughed nervously and said he was very much still married to his wife and he was afraid he and his daughter could be accused of attempting mortgage fraud with these statements they were being asked to sign. I agreed it was super creepy and awkward. But the borrowers were very patient and tried hard to understand this might just be an unfortunate clerical error. But after it appeared time and again throughout the loan package, it became aggravating. Understandably. The final straw was when the parents were reading through the new loan terms and it was apparently a far worse deal than the loan they currently had. They found many loan discrepancies, aside from relationship errors. So they had even more questions that they wanted answers to. I called for help multiple times. The borrower called their loan officer multiple times. We left several voice messages asking for someone to please return our call. The first voice messages we tried to keep light hearted, hey borrowers have questions about the forms they were being asked to sign, they choose to keep going, keep signing but please call us back asap because they do have questions/concerns, etc., etc.

I spent two hours with them and the borrowers had gotten through 85% of the paperwork, thinking that someone would surely call us back. No one did. So after two hours of waiting, the borrowers decided enough was enough, they were not comfortable with error-riddled loan docs AND no one answering our calls. I apologized profusely on behalf of the lender/title co for the errors, their frustration, and for wasting their time. They were very kind towards me. They understood it was out of my control. Not everyone understands when that happens at a signing, but they did. They were now worried about the partially executed loan docs they had just signed ā€“ could they just keep them or destroy them themselves? What was going to happen to them? I explained I was required to collect all copies of the loan docs but that I would take them home and shred/destroy and wait for any further instruction by the hiring company. They said they trusted I would destroy the documents but they were also concerned whether I would be paid for my time, travel, and resources, as well. I told them not to worry, that I was sure things would work out. They asked if they could request me again, after the documents were corrected and reissued. I told them of course. I would be happy to do their signing, but ultimately it would be up to the lender/title co. I left one final voice message with the hiring company, sent emails, and I departed.

Once the hiring company received my email Friday evening that said this CLOSING WAS NOT COMPLETED, I immediately received a CC message from scheduling as they forwarded my message to the closing team. A notice of signing cancellation followed. That email said to contact vendor management if fees were due for the signing. I feel like funds are absolutely due. I feel like this is something the lender should absorb when a loan signing fails like this due to document errors and no one answering calls from the signing table.

Usually after a signing is completed, I get a fee confirmation notice. But not this time. I waited until today (Monday) to see if it just might be delayed. I did not receive any fee verification which usually initiates the payment process, so I forwarded the message to vendor management requesting my full signing fee plus the reprint fee, close to $300. The borrowers would have signed, if not for all the document errors. If not for our calls going unanswered. The borrowers and I did everything right. It was the other team that dropped the ball.

My questions to my fellow signing agents: How often does this happen to YOU? What do you do when your calls/msgs from the signing table go unanswered? How do you handle it? And do you still demand your full fees?
:rage:

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Iā€™ve never had one where the signers decided not to proceed due to unanswered questions. There have been times where it wasnā€™t clear which way to complete some minor form, and no one answered the phone to answer their question, so the signerā€™s printed out an extra copy on their printer and they completed it both ways and sent both back. That worked.

It occurs to me that if a signing agent collected a partially completed package with the intent that the documents would be shredded, then the signers never delivered the mortgage deed. (Remember the song ā€œSigned, Sealed, Deliveredā€). A mortgage is delivered if the signer hands the document to a person with the intend that it be delivered to the mortgagee, but it is not delivered if it is handed to someone with the intent it be destroyed.

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Hi, Ashton. Thanks for chiming in, but not sure the point you are trying to make. Can you be more clear, please? As I mentioned, the signing was not completed due to the borrowers being uncomfortable with too many document errors and no one answering our calls. Glad for you that youā€™ve never encountered this issue. I still think even if the borrowers themselves were OK signing documents that proclaimed them to be married husband/wife rather than father/daughterā€¦ as a notary, I still see an issue notarizing docs when I know they are not a married couple but rather father/daughter. Thanks.

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Iā€™m sure you would not have sent the documents back after agreeing that you would shred them. But suppose some other notary in the same situation allowed him/herself to be bullied into sending the incomplete documents to the title company. Suppose the title company and lender tried to complete the transaction. The signers could always disclaim it, saying that they never delivered the mortgage.

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I donā€™t think Iā€™d have hung in there as long as you did as the docs were so messed up that it would definitely be a redraw and there really is no point in continuing to sign something so obviously wrong. What I have done is request that the borrowers write a brief statement as to the reason they refused to sign (incorrect docs) and scan that back to hiring party. And, yes, under the circumstances, I would expect full fee.

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I recently had a closing where there were docs errors in the spelling of the name. After 2 hours of driving and 30 minutes on the phone with the signing agency and determining the signing would be cancelled, Iā€™m leaving the driveway and get a cancellation notice with a $50 trip fee notice.

I reached out several times to signing agency and got no reply regarding this unacceptable fee.

Long-story short, I took out the acknowledgement pages, shredded them, and used their prepaid label to ship the docs back to them with a note telling them to shred their own documents since they were being so cheap.

A couple days later I got a call from their vendor management telling me they were going to pay me a fair fee that I asked for and it would be included in my next payment.

Iā€™ve learned to not take any crap from these companies. Most really donā€™t value the notary that much when it comes down to it. They expect us to be prepared/timely etc, and I expect the same from them.

Iā€™ve also found that many times, no one answers the ā€œcall this number if there are questions at the tableā€ and then I try calling every number I have for someone. Thankfully, these rarely happen to me, but when they do itā€™s frustrating. Generally itā€™s a Saturday or Monday morning closing when there are contact issues.

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I totally agree with Arichter. I had a signing in March (before I took 5 weeks off for Covid-19), where the loan terms were not what the borrowers had been told they would be. I further found out that the borrowers had not been told that they would have to come up with over $10,000 to close the loan. They had NO CASH and were only refinancing to get the interest rate lowered. I felt so bad for them. They called their lender, who did not answer and did not call back within a few minutes. I did not try to make excuses for the lender. When they told me they had no cash and had never been told they would have to come up with over $10K to get the re-fi. I told them I was sorry they were put in this position and that I was going to leave, and would let my signing company know. I have since been paid the full amount of the Signing. I did not have them sign a statement, but that is an excellent idea, and I will do that next time. I did have them call the lender again before I left to tell them they would not sign and that they told the Notary (me) to go ahead and leave.

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Yes, good idea to have the signers to write a statement and/or leave a vm with their loan officer the reasons they are not signing and that they instructed the notary to leave. May these occasions be few and far between.

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I plan on writing a book one of these daysā€¦closings. :sunglasses:

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Thanks for posting this.

But arenā€™t the title companies and lenders supposed to send docs to the clients to review before the signing to make sure theyā€™re correct? Would it be good practice to call the clients to verify if they got the docs and go over the phone with them before heading to the signing? I think Iā€™m gonna start doing this because I got incorrect CD for which the clients had not seen prior to the signing. Seems like these title companies or lenders are really doing a terrible job with the docs. Seem like they need more training.

Sorry you had to go thru that. But if I got messed up docs and no calls returned. I would have left.

You handled that well. :star_struck::star_struck::star_struck:

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Hi LaVaughn! Yes, in a perfect world, yes, the title companies and lenders send loan docs to the clients to review before the signing appointment to make sure they are accurate and to answer questions. I would be grossly overstepping my bounds as a Notary Signing Agent if I took it upon myself to call the borrowers to go over the loan documents with them on the phone. NSAs must stay in their lane. We are instructed never to discuss loan terms, rates, disbursements, funding process, or timelines with the borrowers. To do otherwise risks liability for unlawfully providing legal/financial or personal advice (or undue influence). At minimum, weā€™d risk stepping on toes or alienating the lenders or title company folks. NSAs must certainly walk a tightrope to get the job done correctly. My main wish is just to have someone PICK UP THE PHONE when the notary must call them with borrower questions/issues at the signing table. That would alleviate so much stress for me :crazy_face: CHEERS! ~Carmen

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Hi Carmen,
Maybe I should have said, verify to see if they got the CD, not go over it with them. I said that wrong because I do know we canā€™t go over any docs with them. Orā€¦ maybe ask the EO did clients get a chance to review CD, either way Iā€™m just trying to avoid calling the EO, but if I have to I just have to. Thanks.

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Thanks for clarifying, LaVaughn. I understand what you are saying now. Yes, yes I much prefer the signings where everything goes smoothly and no phone calls are required :smiley:

Love it! And am quite pleasantly surprised at the outcome. Good for you! Gotta add that I think the most likely outcome of your actions would be to get de-listed. Good to know that at least one company actually realizes the error of their ways.

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Iā€™m a newbie (commissioned in January of this year, only 3 signings under my belt) and reading the initial thread, I would have left too. @Arichter makes a good point!!! Iā€™m glad that these forums exist so that I can take notes in case something like this arises.

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Agreed! After reading this thread I have learned I need to stick up more for myself. I had a signing last night and no one would answer the phone! It was my 2nd signing and I had a lot of questions and concerns. When somebody finally returned my call, 3.5 hrs later they treated me terribly and tried to make me feel stupid. I know never to go with C2C again!

I am a newbie too, and I canā€™t believe how much this forum has helped me. When I donā€™t have a signing, and I have free time I go through all these posts and learn a ton from them! Everyone is soo helpful and I am truly grateful to have such a friendly and helpful community to turn to!

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Yes! NotaryCafe is a great forum. Very helpful and lots of experienced and seasoned NSA. I learned a lot of what NSAs go through, the good and the bad. What Iā€™ve learned so far is to leave the SS alone. I canā€™t have a SS stress me out like that and waiting on documents and low ball fees. I pride myself in giving clients impeccable service and I donā€™t think I will accomplish that working for SS. I canā€™t and will not have a SS threaten to take me off their list or blackball me and all the other negative things Iā€™ve read. I never started out working with SS, I do direct with EOs thanks be to God. My very first signing was with an EO at a title company. It was a sellers packaged for $75. She asked me what my price was and I told her. After that my price has been $150. No negotiations, she just said ok. I have done 12 signings since July 2020. If the SS or anyone search me, you will find me but it will say ā€œno signings, no reviewsā€ etc. and thatā€™s ok with me. Because there are EOs that know me and thatā€™s great for me. Although itā€™s slow right now for me, I can wait, I wonā€™t jeopardize my reputation and my impeccable service by doing any business for these SS companies and if I did I have already drawn up an agreement that they need to sign prior to doing business. I believe in hard work and putting smiles on my clients faces and making the loan closing a pleasant experience for everyone. My husband and I are franchisees of a residential cleaning service for 18 years so I not only own a business but I know how to run one.
With that being said, owning a business and knowing how to RUN a business is two different things. Itā€™s seems that when dealing with SS you have to have a business mind when they donā€™t. Are you running your business or are the SS running your business? Are you their employee or are you self-employed? I know we all have to start somewhere but how low will you go to get that foot in the door? Be blessed.

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This my first comment on NC. What is EO?

Welcome! Itā€™s Escrow Officer

I am a new notary and this is one of the most frustrating things for me. They provide you a number and they donā€™t even answer, before, during or, after the signing. Next they will try to blame us if something goes wrong.

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