WARNING: AOE Signings - update information - Tempe, AZ, D Will Torres/CEO => (formerly “Never Sleep Notary” that’s now out of business)

Hello All - I recently read some discussions about AOE Signings and how some notaries had some issues, particularly with payment.

Just want to share with you that I completed several signings with them. They were nice to work with, and offered assignments that paid well, and I received a check without issue.

I mentioned the commentary to the owner Will Torres, and he said that if anyone had an outstanding issue, to please contact him at Orders@aoesignings.com and he will look into the issues and resolve whatever it might be.

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@pthorsch Hmmm . . .

It’s always a very good idea to be a bit cautious (use critical thinking processes) when there are MULTIPLE threads (see recent direct Notary Cafe thread references below) about NO or SLOW payment on a business entity.

Why (one might ask)?

Sudden payment normally reveals that the business entity is encountering difficulties with Signing Order placement as word spreads about the direct non-payment/slow payment experiences. This is a tactic to garner confidence.

COMMON TECHNIQUES:

  1. NO PAY/SLOW PAY => Progressing to definitively NO PAY
  2. SLOW PAY => Progressing to definitively NO PAY
  3. NO PAY/SLOW PAY => With verbal or written commitments to improve OR the “accounting difficulties” have been rectified . . . then, subsequently paying for an order or two . . . then, progressing to definitively NO PAY

Truly, it’s a judgement call. In general, leopards don’t change their spots.

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FYI: Here are a few reference threads.

:swan:

He is only doing that because he knows he has been put on notice and he realizes that he is having issues with not filling his orders. I am not taking any assignments from that company. As @cNsa5 stated above is 10000000000 % correct

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All good replies here to your post. Another one of my side notes: Getting paid in advance will never happen in this industry. Neither will be getting paid prior to the client verifying we conducted a complete and accurate package that will successfully close. What I do?

  1. Snatch the order first (before someone else does)
  2. If their payment terms are in the order, and they work for me, I keep it moving.
  3. If those payment terms don’t work for me, I give it back to be reassigned.
  4. If no payment terms are in the order, I follow up with a call to the client that hired me and find out when to expect payment. If they give me that info, I make a decision right then and there on the call. If they can’t give me a definitive/acceptable time frame I’m comfy with, I give it back.
  5. I have “set in stone” invoicing and collection policies in place for my business. For example, If they tell me 2 weeks, I give them 14 days, then send an invoice on day 15 via email and in the regular mail. I let them know in the email that one is also coming in the regular mail. Come 31 days past due, they get another emailed invoice, and another in the regular mail certified.
  6. If they still don’t pay after another 30 days, they get put on my “snitch list” where I blast them on every forum and review board I can find with their name on it, and scratch them off my client list whether they pay me or not in the end. Certain patterns throw up certain flags!
    As @cNsa5 stated, AOE made it on many NSA’s “snitch list” and they are now looking to save face (until the money runs out again). Maybe they will be better moving forward, but that will mainly benefit the new NSA’s who work for them who didn’t already get burned by them in the past. Just like us, too many fish in the water when it comes to clients to deal with those headaches. Going back to what @cNsa5 stated, “critical thinking” is key, along with research and trusting your gut! Once such crappy SS companies tarnish their brand, they either crash and burn, or open up under a new name while keeping the same practices.
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I did a job 45 days ago for AOE Signings and it was a 4 hour round trip since I travel to Silver City. I let Signing Order platform know what happened, I will not do anymore closings for them. I also almost got burned from another company that I found bad reviews on from this Notary Cafe site. I’m grateful for that since I cannot be working with crooks and for free.

Also, I declined to work with The Elite Etiquette Group tonight who also has bad reviews. Unfortunately, found out after accepting the offer I declined and told them it was because of bad reviews of other notaries not getting paid and have not heard back from them yet.

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I got this interesting email from them and called the number to let them know I did not do any signings for them so why are they sending me an email with a link to view the remittance. Called the number… no one answered. Googled the website does not exist…. Interesting isn’t it.

I accepted an assignment and after reading everything about them I gave it back immediately

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Wow, that’s… curious. That’s a lot of red flags in one email lol. I’ve noticed a lot more scammers these days, in general.

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I have contacted many time by phone and email and have gotten nothing. all most 90 days past at this point. There really needs to be come support for the signing agents. This is the 2nd non paying job I have done this year, the other fraudulent company is NEMA. Do not take work from Missy at NEMA never will pay you.

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I’m so sorry this has happened to you, and to other notaries.

I’ve had to go head to toe with AOE and finally got paid but this was several months ago.

Signing companies need to be held to the same stringent criteria’s and industry standards as notaries, with penalties in place, however my understanding is they are not. There should also be an escrow account set-up should they go under all outstanding accounts would be paid from it. This is very wrong.

When a signing company gets paid through escrow, they are part of the real estate transaction. It’s a RESPA violation and fraud when they do not pay a notary for their services as part of the transaction. The escrow/title company can be held liable too for unpaid accounts.

I’ve communicated my thoughts with the secretary of state’s office in Oregon and the NNA, suggesting procedures and statues are put in place, which I was hoping the NNA would lobby for. Obviously I’m only one voice. I call on others to join with the same advocacy in order to push for change.

Currently fly by night signing companies are established with many who should never be in business. I honestly do not know the process for signing companies to secure assignments, but would like to learn. Escrow/title companies should have an obligation to engage reputable firms.

Recently I found out one signing company was no longer licensed to do business in the state and their business was suspended.

It’s tough enough to be out there getting business and then have to deal with this, wait 30+ days for payment with hopes you will.

Encourage others to express your thoughts with your Secretary of State’s office.

Pamela Thorsch

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Thank you for your time.

First thank you for the posts and replies. Posts/replies in general seem to be fewer and more far between these days. …And I hope anyone with outstanding invoices with AOE (or other SS) gets paid soon! Most of us are frustrated and many struggling, and I pray the new “House” at some point next year starts turning the tide on our current national fiscal direction in a manner resulting in a rebounding RE market.

AOE must not be completely out of business (I hope), I received and completed an order from them just a few weeks ago, was able to reach the owner by email and phone fairly promptly when I discovered docs were incomplete on SO. I have received occasional offers and completed several signings for AOE, many months apart when the offer was decent enough to respond to and received payments at around 30 - 45 days each time, only having to remind him/them on my first AOE signing about 10 months ago.

Acknowledging the heads-up in this thread re AOE, it might be prudent to start ramping up the calling/emailing at 30 days, like I am having to do with several others. I have found in this RE cycle that measured reminders and subtle pressure has worked best, as I continue to squeeze a few more deals and checks out of the slow payers than I might otherwise have, as a Tally at the end of the month, than perhaps if I had flamed-up the situation…maybe.

I look at it a little bit this way … everyone is slower, and if I am to rely on a portion of my business to be Platform and SS sourced, I should expect it to also be slower for them with likely higher indirect overhead, and the impact on many of them compounded, with brokers and lenders downsizing and/or going out of business and more and more Title companies going to RON and Escrow Officers keeping signings in-house.

Looking at one Platform which seems to come up a lot on this forum - Snap Docs (and their contacted SS) seems to have a horrible rep on every forum I I am aware of, for the most part, going back years now, yet some still seem to love them, and keep them in business. Last week I spoke to a remote Loan Originator for a large lender who I was doing a signing for through ServiceLink. The LO expressed she was thinking she might want to become an AZ Notary/NSA because her LO income had dropped by more than 50% and she thought she might make more as an NSA (my bad, was caught off-guard, and chuckled out loud). I asked her why she thought that. She responded she thought NSAs got paid at least $100 or more per signing because when their company uses SnapDocs in CA, and they put $200 in the LE/CD/Alta for the signing fee…and I chuckled out loud aging. Most of you can imagine how I had to hold my tongue… but it was confirmation that Snapdocs seems to be surviving … by at least the SD players keeping 70% of the deal, and funding the SD model. I still receive offers from SD (I never take), nearly every day. On one time over a year ago I thought about “firing them”, as other have claimed on this forum they have. But I decided to consider them somewhat of a litmus test or canary in the mine…When I don’t receive any more notices through them, I will know the low paying SS may be all be fading away (a good thing in the long run), shifting remaining business to better players, I hope.

Sorry I digress…However, finding and working with a slow paying (but hanging on) SS player in this market is possibly a way to make a few more $$, and when I find those, I sprinkle a little sugar on those relationships rather than vinegar (perhaps delusional I will get paid being closer to top of their list), by letting them know I will be patient and work with them on payment, if we have an understanding that is coming by XYZ date, or the claws will come out)…standing to fight another day together, should the day come. Unless you have a bunch of direct escrow and title relationships up your sleeve, it might be better to hesitate torching a SS relationship right now, until all other options otherwise have been explored - especially if things start to turn around next year.

I appreciate this forum for the messages of alarm when it comes to a potentially bad SS ), so that I can verify and choose to avoid the really troubled players and reconfirm my own research. However, I have a couple of those allegedly bad players as actual good revenue streams for me over the last couple of years, after developing a relationship of understanding and trust with then despite a negative rep on this forum and others. I do encourage others to avoid SS on the SD platform (most are notably low payers unless last minute and desperate), not to be pursued for any reason IMO, even if they pay fast - I say let their biz drown, they are on SD for a reason - these SS are cheap as a rule, one in particular (you know who they are), and are only reasonable as rare exception, which always seems to be an unfamiliar SD SS, at last minute or an evening/weekend signing (because their top tier was busy?)

The rare posts of a good player, and the occasional pearl of who to call/email when chasing down a back-door-way into a SS who is ghosting (like this one), are the posts that mostly get my attention these days - keep them coming, they help us all, one way or another.

As far as our negative posts impacting a SS in a negative way or in any way, IMO, I really question that. My thoughts are it’s a numbers game … millions of Notaries in this country, ten’s and tens of thousands NSAs ( ore than the industry can support right now), and how many on this forum?? and other forums?? then drill down to active regular viewers, reviewers, posters as a % of the industry population? …I’m not sure any SS company is really challenged in terms of finding Notaries/NSAs, for even last-minute signings, if they need to, even if they have bad forum reps. It cracks me up (and not in a good way) how almost every SS company website touts the 10’s of thousands of Notaries in their “nationwide network”… if they can’t find one from their preferred and second tiers, they just check the profiles here on Notary Cafe, or one or two other forums, NNA, etc., and roll the dice…I’m guessing somebody always bites and take their deals, regardless of how low the fee is. And when “rarely” no one does, you see the suspiciously same offer (time/place/fee) show up from another platform or SS a short time later, for the same or higher fee, maybe now a TBD time, and then the thumb racing begins…

I do wish all members of this Forum and Notary Cafe “Blessed Holidays”, and I pray for a better 2023 for all of us!
Signing off for 2022

Yes and, unfortunately, this scammer happens to be a Notary Loan Signing Agent who got me. Sigh

I wish I had the same experience I have left multiple voicemails and sent multiple emails and even spoke to someone once and still no payment after 90 days.

NEMA is ridiculous. No one is there to speak to and the last 2 appointments I was assigned were cancelled without notice. They didn’t tell me the signer did! No response to any voicemails or emails. STAY FAR AWAY very unprofessional with no regard to your time.

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