Today, I received this email from Rocket Close, as follows:
" We’ve recently noticed an increase in closing delays stemming from signers signing on behalf of others and incomplete documents being returned. Please note that continued occurrences may affect future opportunities to receive work from Rocket Close. To ensure a smooth and successful closing process, we ask that all partners:
• Confirm that each signer only signs for themselves. These expectations apply to all closing types, both paper and digital.
• Notaries must bring and use either their laptop or tablet to every hybrid and IPEN closing.
• Verify that all signatures, initials, dates, and notarizations are complete.
• If someone is unable to sign for themselves, please reach out to us directly so we can assist and ensure the process meets everyone’s needs.
• Ensure the full closing package is returned together, with no missing pages.
• Address any document concerns before leaving the signing appointment.
Taking a few extra minutes to complete these verifications helps prevent resigns, redraws, funding delays, and added costs. Most importantly, it safeguards the client experience and upholds our high standards of service."
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What would anyone find objectionable about this email? These are all legitimate concerns.
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@steves11 I totally agree with your statement. I was just sharing the information sent by Rocket Close. Hopefully, that email can be helpful to someone.
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<<<We’ve recently noticed an increase in closing delays stemming from signers signing on behalf of others and incomplete documents being returned.>>>
Notarized docs requiring wet signatures in a hybrid closing? No notary with more than two brain cells is letting someone else sign, then notarizing it anyway. But the rest of the package can be DocuSigned — and if a spouse has the other spouse’s login, or a shared device is left logged in, that’s one way someone could end up signing on another person’s behalf without anyone catching it. The rest of RC’s bullet points are just Notary 101.
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Have you ever done a heloc? The online part is usually done before the notary come to do the wet signing.
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Hybrid and Heloc are the same thing just called by two different names.
Not necessarily. In my experience,
Hybrid: The product can be a purchase, refi, seller, equity or HELOC. Most of the docs are signed electronically. Docs needing notarization are done in person.
HELOC: Home Equity Line of Credit. It can be either a full paper package, a hybrid, an IPEN or RON.
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My point was some of the package is done online and the wet part is done with a notary in person.
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Terminology matters here, and it’s worth being precise. A HELOC is a loan product — Home Equity Line of Credit. “Hybrid” is not a product; it’s a signing method, describing how the closing gets executed. The product and the signing method are two different things, and mixing them up isn’t just a semantic nitpick — it creates confusion so if incorrect terms are being used, NO real point gets made.
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No real point gets made. That happens a lot.
People obviously don’t respect or care about their commissions.
The fact that we can run a business and/or add a little supplemental income in this inflated economy is something the notary community appreciates. It just takes a few to mess it up for the rest.
When we get caught up in the weeds get back to the basics of why a notary is needed in the first place- simple acknowledgments and affidavits/jurats are pretty much the basic certificates.
Having signers sign on someone else’s behalf- that is just a rabbit hole down to a path no one needs.
Everyone involved in the signing process has a lot to lose. Let’s not forget that the signers are depending on us to ensure their packets are signed properly and are cued up for title/bank. Come on fraud is rampant, especially in this digital society.
I am glad Rocket Close mentioned something. Rocket Close is v ery tight about their notary network. It hasn’t accepted new notaries because it has been confident in the notaries within its network… Come on now notary community… don’t mess up a good thing.
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@thatsavvyofficiant
Just building upon your valuable contribution.
In my research on this topic, here’s what I found:
Signing on Another Person’s Behalf
Allowing someone to sign on another person’s behalf can create unnecessary risk and confusion. Because one of our core duties is to help prevent fraud, we should be cautious about any situation that could open the door to potentially fraudulent activity.
Florida Notary Guidance
In Florida, this issue is addressed in the Governor’s Notary Reference Manual, Section 117.107(4). The general concern is that a signer should not simply sign for another person unless there is proper legal authority to do so.
Power of Attorney Exception
There are situations where another person may be authorized to sign on someone’s behalf. For example, if the document requiring notarization is being signed under a valid Power of Attorney (POA), the authorized individual may sign for the principal as permitted by that authority.
- Do not allow one person to sign for another without clear legal authority.
- Confirm whether a valid POA or other authorization applies.
- When in doubt, follow Florida notary guidance and avoid actions that could create fraud concerns.
For New York:
In New York, notarizing a signature on behalf of another person is permissible under specific conditions. This process typically involves a power of attorney, which grants someone the legal authority to sign documents for another individual. However, simply asking someone to sign as a proxy does not automatically confer decision-making powers to that person.
Key Points
- Power of Attorney: This legal document allows one person to act on behalf of another, including signing documents.
- Notary Requirements: The notary must ensure that the person signing on behalf of another has the proper authority, typically verified through the power of attorney.
- Signature Validity: New York law recognizes various forms of signatures, including printed or stamped ones, as long as they are intended to authenticate a document.
Additional Considerations
- Non-residents: Non-residents with a business presence in New York can also become notaries, but they must file their oath and signature with the county clerk.
- Electronic Notarization: New York allows electronic notarization, but it is not mandatory for all transactions.
There is also the issue when someone lacks proper primary identification:
In New York, a credible witness is essential in the notarization process when a signer lacks proper identification. A credible witness can verify the identity of the signer based on personal knowledge or through reliable sources. Here are key points regarding credible witnesses in New York:
Definition and Role
- A credible witness is someone who can affirm the identity of the signer to the notary public. This witness must personally know the signer and be known to the notary or the signer.
Requirements
- New York law allows for one or two credible witnesses. They must be present at the time of notarization and take an oath or affirmation to confirm the signer’s identity.
Documentation
- The notary may require a certificate of subscribing witness to document the witness’s verification of the signer’s identity. This certificate serves as a formal acknowledgment of the witness’s role in the notarization process.
Importance
- Utilizing credible witnesses helps maintain the integrity of the notarization process, especially when traditional forms of identification are unavailable.
I tend to stay away from this scenario. It is a pain to be bothered with.
Thanks for your response. Yes POA, a business, or some other legal instance may warrant signing on someone’s behalf.
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@earl226 This is a public discussion forum — meant for discussing topics, including disagreeing on them. Asking clarifying questions is a part of it. Speaking of which — I asked a direct question: “Did you mean hybrid?” You answered with incorrect information, which another poster then corrected with an accurate breakdown. That’s not me hammering anyone. That’s how a discussion works.
It’s also worth pointing out: everyone is allowed to “help”. But apparently when someone else “helps” or asks a question or corrects inaccurate info, that makes them a “know-it-all” who “wants people to think” they know everything. Can’t have it both ways — you don’t get credit for 'helping" while being exempt from being questioned. And for the record, nearly two decades of doing this gives me plenty of standing to share and comment on these topics. That’s not an act.
I’ll just go ahead and confirm what you said in your deleted post: you weren’t mistaken that people are genuinely nice.
I’ve been nothing but nice and respectful in every single response I’ve written in this thread. If you read correction as attack, that’s a YOU problem. I’ll participate in any discussion I choose to, whenever I choose to. So to YOU and anyone else reading this: Don’t like my posts? Ignore me, block me, scroll past — I genuinely could not care less. Notaries of all skill sets and experience levels participate in this forum and even today I gain valuable tips and insight from reading various posts. What I won’t do is sit quietly while incorrect information gets posted and pretend I didn’t notice.
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<<<To begin I wasn’t talking to you. I was asking LKTHORNTON>>>
There’s an option on NC to send private message if you want a private discussion. Otherwise, we’re all free to respond to any comment, regardless of whom it was directed at.
